There are two main
benefits of working in Westminster.
One is the newly founded and quite brilliant Westminster Skeptics in the Pub,
of which more another time.
The other is that I’m very
close to the Houses of Parliament, which is a lovely place to go and eat lunch.
Occasionally, there are
protests in Parliament Square
to entertain you while you eat.
Brian Haw is always there,
and recently there were the huge Tamil rallies, although my personal favourite
was when a few hundred beekeepers popped up in full regalia.
Today, though, was the
turn of the homeopaths, who had arranged to protest in advance of Monday's Select Committee report.
I was alerted to the
planned protest by Gimpy, and as an ardent 10:23 supporter, I thought I’d pop
down and see what happened.*
It’s fair to say that the
protest wasn’t well attended (there were far more beekeepers last November). I’m no good at estimating the size of crowds, but
there were probably only around 50 people. There were certainly less than at
the London 10:23 event, and definitely less than 10^23 homeopaths to the one of me.
It’s also fair to point
out that the messages on banners were not about evidence. It’s obviously
unfair to expect homemade signs to outline detailed criticism of RCTs, but the
points made on them were familiar, tired arguments – you can see ‘My healthcare, My
choice’ and ‘Homeopathy worked for me!’ in my photos.
I took a couple of
photographs and then engaged a couple of protesters in discussion, hoping to
speak to a press spokesman or one of the leaders for the Pod Delusion.
It quickly became clear
that there was no organisation to speak of. The parliamentary authorities had
agreed to allow up to 100 people into the building, but there were nowhere near
that number of people.
I introduced myself as
someone involved in 10:23 demonstration and who was interested in seeing what the
protestors were saying.
We had quite a jolly chat about
what my beef was, why I didn’t support choice in healthcare and their assertion
that there was good evidence for
homeopathy and other complementary treatments.
There was then a lovely
moment when another woman came over and said she that as I was obviously a very
articulate young man, would I like to speak on their behalf when they met some
MPs?
Her two co-protestors quickly explained I was from the ‘other side’ and we
continued talking.
The exchange became a bit
more detailed, although no less good-natured, when we were joined by Tim Lloyd
from the College
of Practical Homeopathy (as
opposed to the Theoretical kind?). He was able to quote studies and more
sophisticated arguments, and so our discussion quickly ranged wider.
I’ll try to summarise the discussion here.
Bear in
mind that while most points were made by Tim Lloyd, not all were. And although
I did think their points were quite weak and easy to rebut, I’m also documenting
the whole thing from memory, so there may be some confirmation bias involved…
They said that money was
wasted on all sorts of things in the NHS, and £4m in the scale of the total
budget was tiny, so why was this a big concern? Why did I want homeopathy
banned?
I explained that I didn’t
want homeopathy banned, but simply not funded on the NHS because there was no
evidence it worked.
They made a number of
points in response to this.
Apparently, 80% of people
who used homeopathy paid for it privately anyway, but wasn’t discriminating
against people who could not afford to pay for it? Here I reiterated the
evidence point.
They also claimed there is
good evidence for homeopathy. I questioned whether that was in the form of
double blind trials, to which they said variously:
- Yes it is
- You can only establish whether healthcare
measures work over a long period of time, once you can see the full side
effects. Homeopathy has been tested over a period of time and the data is
there, while modern medicine hasn’t been
- They said that all good high quality, double
blinded, randomly controlled trials on Arnica show that it works on
bruises. I’m not an expert on the literature, but I disputed that there were
any such trials.
- The 1918 wartime trial on Spanish flu showed
homeopathy worked. (I know Simon Singh and Edzard Ernst had dismissed in
Alternative Medicine on Trial, but couldn’t remember why.)
- There are massive trials going on at the
moment in Swaziland
(not double blinded) and Cuba
(double blinded) which showed homeopathy worked. I agreed that, if they
trials were as described, the Cuban one would be very interesting.
They suggested that meta-analyses
showing homeopathy doesn’t work are not a reasonable measure of efficacy
because they exclude the trials where homeopathy has fared well, and include
the trials where it has fared badly.
I suggested that those
conducting the analyses would characterise things differently, as they included
high and excluded low quality trials, and that this is what led to poor results
for homeopathy. Their response was ‘They would say that!’
They agreed that it would
be wrong to just include trials where homeopathy was successful, but that one should
look at all of the trials, and that showed positive results.
We discussed the argument
that homeopathy is hard to test because of the vast number of remedies and because
people don’t react in the same way to remedies. This was, they explained, why
the individualised consultation is important. 50% of homeopathy is apparently
the consultation.
I asked whether that meant
Boots remedies didn’t work, since they weren’t individualised but purchased
from a shop. They said no, in general, mass produced remedies didn’t work as
well as individualised ones, but that for ‘simpler’ remedies they worked just
as well.
I asked whether they would
support Big Pharma selling drugs that had not been shown to work via
double-blind trials, or shown not to work via double blind trials.
They responded that Big
Pharma drugs didn’t work but they hid the results. I said I agreed this was a
problem, and that all research should be funded, but that it was irrelevant to
the question of whether they would support the sale of those drugs.
They agreed that there
should not be one rule for all and that they would not be happy for Big Pharma
to sell drugs under those conditions.
I also asked whether all homeopaths
succuss remedies the same number of times. They assured me they did, and that
they knew it was the right amount because there have hundreds of years of experience to go on, although no tests they could tell me about.
And there I had to leave
it because my lunch break was over, and the protestors were being called into the
Commons.
I’m not sure what happened
inside, but if I can find any details or anyone knows, I’ll update
the post.
Overall, it wasn’t a very
impressive show of force. If this is the ‘not
inconsiderable influence within the homeopathic community’ Lionel Milgrom has been
boasting of, Evan Harris will be fine.
Tim Lloyd said he was happy
to continue the debate if I wanted.
I have no great desire to, although I
enjoyed the back and forth and he and his colleagues were very pleasant.
It’s just a shame they are
so horribly, horribly wrong.
NB
Thanks to those who suggested helpful questions for me to ask, which included:
-
There's not many people here today, do you think that you're stronger in
more diluted numbers?
-
Isn't this a placebo protest? You're probably not going to have any
actual effect, but it'll make you feel a lot better?
-
If a spoon-full of sugar helps the medicine go down, what does a sugar
pill on its own help go down?
-
As like cures like, shouldn't you be advocating a ban on homeopathy?
A
shorter version of this report will appear on the Pod Delusion on Friday. I may use
some of this superb material there.
*At one stage I thought
about doing a one-man overdose, but was undone by my inherent dislike of
confrontation and my inability to sort out the forms required to stage a
protest in Parliament Square.